Ir al contenido principal.
Enlaces relacionados:  Prensa  Compañía  Clientes  Contáctenos
Solsoft

Foros

[php-gni] Qt 4


Autor Mensaje
Escrito en: 30. 06. 2005 [14:17]
braulio
Braulio Solano Rojas
Autor del tema
registrado desde: 16.05.2008
Entradas: 2
Hello.

I've compiled twice qt 4 to try designing a new GUI alternative to
WinIsis. Not success yet. It takes a lot of my machine time to
compile... and at the end the designer has some bugs.

I am just downloading another version from Trolltech site. icon_wink.gif I am
hoping this one will work better. If not I will try from FreeBSD ports
when available.

To have a GUI made with QT will permit to have it on different platforms
(Linux, FreeBSD, Mac, Windows).

I will use Index Data YAZ to access Malete or Selene database. I do not
know yet how I am going to do it since I am still in a "thinking" step. I
will also try to include a Macro feature for lua. I do not know yet if it
is going to be possible (right now it is just a challenge). Through lua
the users should be capable of extending the GUI.

Those are my ideas right now. What do you think?

Out of topic, don't forget to give a visit to:
http://www.phpclasses.org/vote.html

Vote for my Soap Discovery class, maybe I'll win a beautiful IDE to share
stuff with you.

Saludos,

B.

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 30. 06. 2005 [17:48]
paul@malete.org
Klaus Ripke
registrado desde: 31.12.1969
Entradas: 0
Hi

On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 12:17:05PM -0600, Braulio Jos=E9 Solano Rojas wrote:
> I've compiled twice qt 4 to try designing a new GUI alternative to
> WinIsis. Not success yet. It takes a lot of my machine time to
> compile... and at the end the designer has some bugs.
comes as no surprise to me.
Actually I just tried to compile a 3.3.4 in order to get
scribus running, but it plain failed, after a quite lengthy
configure session. So this is just crapware.

I'm quite used to fix a little this and that manually
to get things running, but with multimegabytelibs like Qt,
this approach might really spoil your day.
So maybe you can explain why you think Qt is the thing
in the first place? I mean, I know, once it's running,
it's working not too fast, but relatively stable and bugfree
on the two important platforms (X11 on the latest linux
and the latest windows). But still it's a huge beast, no?

> I am just downloading another version from Trolltech site. icon_wink.gif I am
> hoping this one will work better. If not I will try from FreeBSD ports
> when available.
good luck -- but what for?
considered Tk? working(TM) for 15 years now?

> To have a GUI made with QT will permit to have it on different platforms
> (Linux, FreeBSD, Mac, Windows).
That's true, but somehow pointing in the wrong direction.
Most of the kits at the GUI pages are multiplatform,
including fltk (which at least is small),
wxwidgets (feature rich, but IMHO the wrong approach),
Tcl/Tk (with the major problem that people hate Tcl,
but anyway Tk is definitely the reference in excellent
GUI framework design -- and it's even working in practice!),
SDL (very nice for all the MM fun stuff) and and and ...
So why Qt?


> I will use Index Data YAZ to access Malete or Selene database. I do not
WHOA!
If you are going for real Z39.50, why not use Zebra?
I guess it's an excellent Z39.50 server, and it fancies most
of standard Z39.50 features like converting between different
formats (MARC variants or XML stuff and more) as well as
the latest Zoom ****. You would be hard pressed to get more
interoperability than by using Zebra. It's just the best stuff!

Malete, and even more Selene (which is mostly a tuned and stripped
version) can offer even better performance, but using an ultra
high level protocol like Z39.50, with it's extremely expensive
ASN.1 encoding (or the even more expensive XML variants),
performance is a foreign word anyway.

The real issue is that Malete/Selene are writable databases.
The whole point of Z39.50 is reading.
I know there are some "extensions" to support writing,
but this is like using your glasses, meant for reading,
to scratch a message somewhere.
In terms of relational databases, Z39.50 knows only views,
no tables. There might be "insertable views", but they are
really turning the whole idea upside down.
With reading, abstraction and translation are great,
but writing non-native usually gives results like my
feeble attempts to write english at best.
And that is even despite the fact that I have my roots in
lower-saxony like the anglo-saxons do, english and german
are close relatives like US MARC and MARC 21.
Yet translation is difficult.


> know yet how I am going to do it since I am still in a "thinking" step. I
> will also try to include a Macro feature for lua. I do not know yet if it
> is going to be possible (right now it is just a challenge). Through lua
> the users should be capable of extending the GUI.
that would be much easier using one of the GUI kits
for which there already exists a Lua binding.
However, most of them are built using toLua,
which clearly is nice for the occasional interface,
but not the way to go for serious work.

My favourite would be a hand-written LuaFltk once
Fltk finally arrives at 2.0 (with full Unicode support),
but from a GUI structuring point of view I'd prefer
something rather like XUL, but w/o all the X*L crap,
so we can do it in 200K instead of 20M.


> Those are my ideas right now. What do you think?
You probably based your considerations much on technical
preferences as well as curiosity, at least this made for
much of my answer.
This is ok, if this really is our motivation --
having some fun in a way that might be useful.

Should we, however, be driven by an urge to make it useful,
with an option of having some fun, we should discuss
the wheres, hows, whos and for whoms in more depth.


abrazo
Klaus

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 10. 08. 2005 [14:47]
braulio
Braulio Solano Rojas
Autor del tema
registrado desde: 16.05.2008
Entradas: 2
Hi.

Sorry for the very late response.

Klaus Ripke wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 12:17:05PM -0600, Braulio José Solano Rojas wrote:
>> I am just downloading another version from Trolltech site. icon_wink.gif I am
>> hoping this one will work better. If not I will try from FreeBSD ports
>> when available.
> good luck -- but what for?
> considered Tk? working(TM) for 15 years now?

Well actually that is somehow why I was waiting to answer. I won a Komodo
Pro license from ActiveState at phpclasses.org. Komodo Pro comes with a
version of Tk. What I don't like about Tk is the look, but I would give
it a try. I will have also the possibility of using Python or Perl...

> Most of the kits at the GUI pages are multiplatform,
> ...
> So why Qt?

The look. It is more attractive and with Qt 4 comes (supposedly) new
improvements in executables size.
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announcements/00000209.html

>> I will use Index Data YAZ to access Malete or Selene database. I do not
> WHOA!
> If you are going for real Z39.50, why not use Zebra?

About Z39.50 I could try Zebra, but I have to read more about Z39.50
because I am sure there is a lot I am still not getting right.

>> know yet how I am going to do it since I am still in a "thinking" step.
>> I
>> will also try to include a Macro feature for lua. I do not know yet if
>> it
>> is going to be possible (right now it is just a challenge). Through lua
>> the users should be capable of extending the GUI.
> that would be much easier using one of the GUI kits
> for which there already exists a Lua binding.
> However, most of them are built using toLua,
> which clearly is nice for the occasional interface,
> but not the way to go for serious work.
>
> My favourite would be a hand-written LuaFltk once
> Fltk finally arrives at 2.0 (with full Unicode support),
> but from a GUI structuring point of view I'd prefer
> something rather like XUL, but w/o all the X*L crap,
> so we can do it in 200K instead of 20M.

I saw some screenshots of Fltk and it does not look so bad.

>> Those are my ideas right now. What do you think?
> You probably based your considerations much on technical
> preferences as well as curiosity, at least this made for
> much of my answer.
> This is ok, if this really is our motivation --
> having some fun in a way that might be useful.

A lot of curiosity indeed... icon_wink.gif But I got tired of trying to compile Qt
4. In windows in order to use the free version it has to be compiled with
Mingw... to use it with Visual C, you have to buy it (what a concept of
free!). In my FreeBSD it compiled well but I could not draw a Main Window
with the designer, the f*ck*ng Main Window template won't appear on my Qt
4 (it appears well on Qt 3)!.

> Should we, however, be driven by an urge to make it useful,
> with an option of having some fun, we should discuss
> the wheres, hows, whos and for whoms in more depth.

Of course. May be with Komodo Pro I will be able of producing something
useful...

The look is very important to me... I am not being shallow. Satisfaction
is one of the five components of usability:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030825.html

I think doing something useful but beautiful would give us a lot of users.

Abrazos,

B.

P.S.: Hope to have soon some news about Komodo.

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 21. 08. 2005 [05:22]
paul@malete.org
Klaus Ripke
registrado desde: 31.12.1969
Entradas: 0
moinmoin

On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 12:47:28PM -0600, Braulio Jos=E9 Solano Rojas wrote:
> Sorry for the very late response.
me too icon_wink.gif
my 4 months old little boy just keeps me quite busy.

> Klaus Ripke wrote:
> > considered Tk? working(TM) for 15 years now?
> > So why Qt?
> The look. It is more attractive and with Qt 4 comes (supposedly) new
> improvements in executables size.
We are also considering yet another approach,
which is (hold breath) to use flash.
Really. Not kidding icon_smile.gif

Recently there has been some buzz about "RIA"
(rich internet applications), meaning to use the flash player
not only for funny (or annoying) animations,
but for all sorts of GUI stuff.
To a large part this is due to actionscript being the cleaner
and fully portable javascript and flash having much nicer
controls than standard html.

So we are going to board that train anyhow to make some dosh,
and once we developped more savvy in that area will use it
to make a *very* colourful and portable DB frontend
with sound, movies and all that.

> A lot of curiosity indeed... icon_wink.gif But I got tired of trying to compile Qt
me too.
One nice thing about flash is, it's working.

> The look is very important to me... I am not being shallow. Satisfaction
> is one of the five components of usability:
absolutely - with whistles and bells!

> I think doing something useful but beautiful would give us a lot of users.
that's the idea



saludos

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 01. 09. 2005 [17:36]
fgomez@criba.edu.ar
=?Windows-1252?Q?Fernando_J._G=F3mez?
registrado desde: 31.12.1969
Entradas: 0
Klaus Ripke wrote:

> Recently there has been some buzz about "RIA"
> (rich internet applications), meaning to use the flash player
> not only for funny (or annoying) animations,
> but for all sorts of GUI stuff.

Hi Klaus. Could you point to some examples of interesting (not only
funny) GUIs made with Flash?

Also, I'd like to know how does Flash fit in the context of free
software tools to which GNI belongs, e.g. can you generate Flash
applications without proprietary tools?

Thanks.


--
Fernando


----------------------------------------
Fernando J Gómez
----------------------------------------
Biblioteca Dr. Antonio Monteiro
Instituto de Matemática de Bahía Blanca
Universidad Nacional del Sur / Conicet
Av. Alem 1253
B8000CPB Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Tel. (54 291) 459 5116
IM: fgomezbib en yahoo
----------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 02. 09. 2005 [06:34]
paul@malete.org
Klaus Ripke
registrado desde: 31.12.1969
Entradas: 0
hi

On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 06:36:42PM -0300, Fernando Gomez wrote:
> Hi Klaus. Could you point to some examples of interesting (not only
> funny) GUIs made with Flash?
McMedia themselves have a couple of examples at
http://macromedia.com/devnet/flash/sample_apps.html
They want to sell their cold fusion, flex and other server
stuff at any corner, but really it is not needed.
(We know, we are running a bunch of flash games
heavily talking to our own webserver coronita icon_smile.gif

A really kewl app, IMHO, is the (google based) newsmap
http://www.marumushi.com/apps/newsmap/

Some nice samples are at
http://www.iterationtwo.com/examples.html
e.g. http://www.caledonbank.com/accountFinder.html
(actually I wrote a homebanking based on macromedia director
myself 8 years ago).

SAP has a maybe interesting announcement
http://www.sap.com/company/press/press.epx?PressID=4519


> Also, I'd like to know how does Flash fit in the context of free
> software tools to which GNI belongs, e.g. can you generate Flash
> applications without proprietary tools?
there are some rather beta, some quite mature
http://www.actionscript.com/index.php/fw/1/towards-open-source-flash-development/
http://ming.sourceforge.net/
http://www.mtasc.org/
http://flasm.sourceforge.net/
http://www.sephiroth.it/python/sepy.php
http://f4l.sourceforge.net/


have fun

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
Escrito en: 13. 09. 2005 [18:55]
paul@malete.org
Klaus Ripke
registrado desde: 31.12.1969
Entradas: 0
followup: interfaces in two or 3 years

no, not talking about windooooz vista.
It for sure adds a lot of new eye candy,
but again in a way to hamper competition by just
doing some incompatible thing.

Yet I suppose hardware manufacturers are going
to continue support for OpenGL.

On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 11:22:53AM +0200, Klaus Ripke wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 12:47:28PM -0600, Braulio Jos=E9 Solano Rojas wro=
te:
> > The look is very important to me... I am not being shallow. Satisfacti=
on
> > is one of the five components of usability:
> absolutely - with whistles and bells!
>=20
> > I think doing something useful but beautiful would give us a lot of use=
rs.
> that's the idea

while I got me by now a mobile phone running flash,
and it's really doing fine and IMHO is a good basis
for having a very nice GUI on low ressource hardware
(a 100 MHz ARM processor with 8 MB RAM;
and *this* part of the hardware is really cheap)
my favourite for the local desktop is Cairo,
preferrably on OpenGL.

see http://www.cairographics.org/ (yes, it runs on Win).
and http://www.freedesktop.org/~jonsmirl/graphics.html


have fun

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail



¿Ha olvidado su contraseña?

Por favor introduzca su nombre de usuario o dirección de correo electrónico. Las instrucciones para restablecer la contraseña serán inmediatamente enviadas por correo electrónico.
Restablecer contraseña

Volver al formulario de inicio de sesión 


Copyright © 2003-2009, Solsoft de Costa Rica S.A.
Declaración de privacidad